I never buy new. My second hand Ford that I bought 8 years ago cost £9k and is falling apart.
I plan to spend £14k on a replacement fairly soon. It will be electric because having driven one I really don’t want a sluggish smelly petrol vehicle anymore.
How does that fit your narrative?
Buying new never made sense financially. Now it makes even less sense, but who cares?
A brand new car. Pipe dream. Even if I could afford one I'd never buy one. I'd buy used Honda or Lexus. Petrol. 2 litre. 5 doors. 6gears. Less than 5 years old. Decent service history. That's all you need. Rest is vanity..
Your assertion that the public hasn’t been convinced by EVs isn’t borne out by the article you quote, if you also include hybrids. The article showed that EVs and hybrid sales combined have been growing steadily and last year made up 49.5% of new car sales, having grown rapidly. Other sources have different data, but they also seem to show that EVs and hybrids have grown from basically nothing in 2019 to just under 50% five years later. That sounds a pretty good lick to me.
Can’t understand why Jennifer didn’t start off looking for a second-hand vehicle in the first place, given how much a car loses in value when it leaves the forecourt. Used car prices have risen substantially in the UK recently as well, but they’re still much cheaper than new cars even with not many miles on the clock.
The obvious answer, as Jennifer finds, is never buy new. In the glory days of company cars we got used to driving new and changing every 3 years. It was all driven by industrial policy and tax regimes. Governments wanted jobs for car makers, which was considered one of the main planks of an economy. Companies found providing a car was a lot cheaper than paying more salary. As young exec I appreciate this trend. Later, as a business owner, I hated all the hassle I got from people over which brand they wanted and which model. One chap actually said he would give up some salary if I bought him a BMW rather than the Fords I usually bought my managers. When I said I thought he was daft he said "it's about status - I can't park my salary in the drive." That's how Britain got hooked on the drug of car brands! My solution is buying used. Recently I found a new Ford EV with 900 miles on the clock at £42k. The new price had been £63k. Do I care about colour choice compared with £20k in the bank?! And cars are so reliable and long-lasting now. We keep a Mercedes convertible runabout at our holiday home. It's 22 years old and runs like a sewing machine. I bought it 10 years ago for £12k and the other day was quoted £3,000 for it by one of those "we lie about buying cars" websites. A year old example of the latest version of the same car is £50k! New ones are even more expensive. Why would I change it, just for the latest number plate??
A good article which resonates. I think at the heart of the issue is the deep resentment we have for paying so much money for something we don’t really want.
I have to have a car to get around because other options aren’t viable in the countryside. I’m annoyed the minimum viable option is so expensive, and contains so many unnecessary things like an iPad welded to the dashboard.
Buying cheap cars new hasn't made sense for ages - not since older cars became reliable.
In the 80s buying a new fiesta made some sort of sense because a five year old fiesta was at least half way cooked.
As the article points out half of all the cars on the roads are now a decade old and they're probably more reliable than a brand new car was quite recently.
The OP is right, it makes no sense to buy a poverty spec focus for £28k - that money puts you in a host of fairly premium 18month old electrics. Which won't cost any more in maintenance (because they're electric), which will probably cost less in fuel and which have already done the worst of their depreciation. You'd need to be nuts.
£13k - the updated cost of a new Fiesta puts Jennifer into a four year old Tesla Model 3 which is a vastly nicer thing that a new fiesta would have been if it existed. Which it doesn't precisely because most people are sane enough to see the economics of the above and don't want to buy a new fiesta any more.
"Why is is harder to get into a product category that no longer exists because fewer people want it" is an odd sort of complaint.
The future is building fewer, better, more durable cars and hanging onto them longer.
The author frets that keeping all these wheezy old bangers on the road is slowing adoption of the latest technology and efficiency gains but he hasn't factored in the embodied carbon issue.
I'm not saying the situtation is perfect. But it's OK.
Depreciation is working a miracle. The actual problem is that the depreciation is so great that people aren't buying so many new electric vehicles. That, in turn is partly a consequence of rising interest rates, which makes getting people behind the wheel of all this cutting edge tech harder. I notice that this issue doesn't get a mention in the piece either.
But, of course, if what you actually care about is the climate then the solution is not better cars but the regernation of the sort of cities, which do not necessitate them...
Just transition, it will be cheaper in a couple of years.
This insightful article leads me to this question: What happens to existing oil-fueled cars if all people use 100% EVs? Huge amounts of abandoned waste.
Yes to practically all of this. But buying a new car has always been a stupid idea, when your shiny purchase depreciates 20% as you drive off the forecourt. Go to your local car supermarket, and be amazed at what you can buy if you’re willing to go, say, three years old, and up to 20,000 miles on the clock. Lots of groovy gadgets, and entirely serviceable, insurable, nice cars…
I’d believe all of this a bit more if I didn’t drive a Toyota Yaris hybrid which is nowhere near the size you’re telling me that cars “have” to be because of electrification. It seems to me a lot more likely that the car companies are milking the market by increasing the minimum size of vehicles to inflate their profit margins and keep their shareholders happier. That’s what transport experts tell me, anyway.
I mean you can actually get pulled over by the police for it. If you don’t want to change lanes, stay in the left lane. All other lanes on a motorway or dual carriageway are overtaking lanes and should only be used when you’re overtaking other vehicles.
I would note that Britain's car market is probably in better shape than Canada or the US or Europe. Because they let Chinese automakers compete. But also, driving is surprisingly dangerous. In America, land of the holy guns, guns barely kills more than cars.
I live in Ireland, where a) everything is a bit more costly and b) cars have the year of building on the number plate, which means everyone can tell if you are upgrading on the regular.
Firstly, Jennifer is right to buy 2nd hand. Normal wisdom is the car loses a third of the value when the first driver drives it away. You don't quote a 2nd hand price, but poking around suggests this third holds for a ford focus. Based on south Dublin, there is going to be no shortage of cars for the 2nd hand market any time soon.
Secondly, you mention regulation. The UK doesn't really have much say any more, due to leaving the EU. The UK is a small car market. This was predictable. The one place where the UK is doing better than the EU is by not setting trariffs on cars from China.
Thirdly, you mention "The massive increases in price, size and weight are down to two things: mandatory safety systems that require increasingly sophisticated arrays of cameras, sensors, electronics, impact systems" . Computers are both light (you can carry around a mobile phone) and also cheap. Also, the cheap ford focus, is ... a petrol car. Why is the drivetrain bigger?
A different view is:
- Ford sets prices based on what the market will pay with the goal of maximising income. They are rational actors. Jennifer is also a rational actor. She's working to get the best she can from a fixed budget. If Ford over prices their cars and they start piling up outside the factory, then prices will come down.
- Most people want flashy features in their car? They also want better MPG.
- Lots of people die on the roads each year, and many more are injured etc. Lots of people, including myself, are willing to pay extra for safety. I've considered home brew parking sensors or a reversing cam.
Good to see you writing again. A related point on this, as a parent of two under threes in desperate need of a new car (currently have a 2018 Fiesta), child car seats are now massive, are required for much longer than ever before (11/12 years(?), or by the time they reach a certain height), and we can only fit them in the fiesta by putting the older child in before the younger. But who would vote against less safe car seats? We don’t want more kids, but if we did you can add another £20,000 minimum onto the car price for the extra space to fit a third car seat with all the other features we want (not need).
I suspect it was tongue-in-cheek, and I'm not saying I believe them, but I've seen someone suggest that one reason for falling fertility rates is that it's basically impossible to transport more than 2 children in a car with modern car seats. We used to fit three kids in a Peugeot 205, now people are struggling to fit two in an SUV.
Yep, I’m one of three who used to fit (just about) into an Astra. It didn’t feature in our decision making, but I’d be surprised if it wasn’t a genuine consideration for some!
Looking at how Jennifer uses her car why doesn't she just spend £5k on a used car and save a ton of money over the next few years in depreciation costs? It would be perfectly good enough for her needs, she probably doesn't need any of the bells and whistles that come with New cars these days and make them expensive.
I never buy new. My second hand Ford that I bought 8 years ago cost £9k and is falling apart.
I plan to spend £14k on a replacement fairly soon. It will be electric because having driven one I really don’t want a sluggish smelly petrol vehicle anymore.
How does that fit your narrative?
Buying new never made sense financially. Now it makes even less sense, but who cares?
Well balanced and hugely apoltical but incisive commentary about living in modern day Great Britain.
A brand new car. Pipe dream. Even if I could afford one I'd never buy one. I'd buy used Honda or Lexus. Petrol. 2 litre. 5 doors. 6gears. Less than 5 years old. Decent service history. That's all you need. Rest is vanity..
Your assertion that the public hasn’t been convinced by EVs isn’t borne out by the article you quote, if you also include hybrids. The article showed that EVs and hybrid sales combined have been growing steadily and last year made up 49.5% of new car sales, having grown rapidly. Other sources have different data, but they also seem to show that EVs and hybrids have grown from basically nothing in 2019 to just under 50% five years later. That sounds a pretty good lick to me.
Can’t understand why Jennifer didn’t start off looking for a second-hand vehicle in the first place, given how much a car loses in value when it leaves the forecourt. Used car prices have risen substantially in the UK recently as well, but they’re still much cheaper than new cars even with not many miles on the clock.
The obvious answer, as Jennifer finds, is never buy new. In the glory days of company cars we got used to driving new and changing every 3 years. It was all driven by industrial policy and tax regimes. Governments wanted jobs for car makers, which was considered one of the main planks of an economy. Companies found providing a car was a lot cheaper than paying more salary. As young exec I appreciate this trend. Later, as a business owner, I hated all the hassle I got from people over which brand they wanted and which model. One chap actually said he would give up some salary if I bought him a BMW rather than the Fords I usually bought my managers. When I said I thought he was daft he said "it's about status - I can't park my salary in the drive." That's how Britain got hooked on the drug of car brands! My solution is buying used. Recently I found a new Ford EV with 900 miles on the clock at £42k. The new price had been £63k. Do I care about colour choice compared with £20k in the bank?! And cars are so reliable and long-lasting now. We keep a Mercedes convertible runabout at our holiday home. It's 22 years old and runs like a sewing machine. I bought it 10 years ago for £12k and the other day was quoted £3,000 for it by one of those "we lie about buying cars" websites. A year old example of the latest version of the same car is £50k! New ones are even more expensive. Why would I change it, just for the latest number plate??
A good article which resonates. I think at the heart of the issue is the deep resentment we have for paying so much money for something we don’t really want.
I have to have a car to get around because other options aren’t viable in the countryside. I’m annoyed the minimum viable option is so expensive, and contains so many unnecessary things like an iPad welded to the dashboard.
Oh don’t get me started on the iPads, the dumbest idea I think I’ve ever seen in a car.
Price of a new BNY Seal in China: £20k. Price in UK: £45k. 😬
So don't buy a car from a country where economic slavery reigns and where rights are virtually non-existent.
Buying cheap cars new hasn't made sense for ages - not since older cars became reliable.
In the 80s buying a new fiesta made some sort of sense because a five year old fiesta was at least half way cooked.
As the article points out half of all the cars on the roads are now a decade old and they're probably more reliable than a brand new car was quite recently.
The OP is right, it makes no sense to buy a poverty spec focus for £28k - that money puts you in a host of fairly premium 18month old electrics. Which won't cost any more in maintenance (because they're electric), which will probably cost less in fuel and which have already done the worst of their depreciation. You'd need to be nuts.
£13k - the updated cost of a new Fiesta puts Jennifer into a four year old Tesla Model 3 which is a vastly nicer thing that a new fiesta would have been if it existed. Which it doesn't precisely because most people are sane enough to see the economics of the above and don't want to buy a new fiesta any more.
"Why is is harder to get into a product category that no longer exists because fewer people want it" is an odd sort of complaint.
The future is building fewer, better, more durable cars and hanging onto them longer.
The author frets that keeping all these wheezy old bangers on the road is slowing adoption of the latest technology and efficiency gains but he hasn't factored in the embodied carbon issue.
I'm not saying the situtation is perfect. But it's OK.
Depreciation is working a miracle. The actual problem is that the depreciation is so great that people aren't buying so many new electric vehicles. That, in turn is partly a consequence of rising interest rates, which makes getting people behind the wheel of all this cutting edge tech harder. I notice that this issue doesn't get a mention in the piece either.
But, of course, if what you actually care about is the climate then the solution is not better cars but the regernation of the sort of cities, which do not necessitate them...
Just transition, it will be cheaper in a couple of years.
This insightful article leads me to this question: What happens to existing oil-fueled cars if all people use 100% EVs? Huge amounts of abandoned waste.
Homework—finding "how" solution ✨
Btw, thank you for sharing this detail info.
Yes to practically all of this. But buying a new car has always been a stupid idea, when your shiny purchase depreciates 20% as you drive off the forecourt. Go to your local car supermarket, and be amazed at what you can buy if you’re willing to go, say, three years old, and up to 20,000 miles on the clock. Lots of groovy gadgets, and entirely serviceable, insurable, nice cars…
I’d believe all of this a bit more if I didn’t drive a Toyota Yaris hybrid which is nowhere near the size you’re telling me that cars “have” to be because of electrification. It seems to me a lot more likely that the car companies are milking the market by increasing the minimum size of vehicles to inflate their profit margins and keep their shareholders happier. That’s what transport experts tell me, anyway.
Why is staying in the same lane not safer? Changing lanes has got to be the most dangerous part of motorway driving.
I mean you can actually get pulled over by the police for it. If you don’t want to change lanes, stay in the left lane. All other lanes on a motorway or dual carriageway are overtaking lanes and should only be used when you’re overtaking other vehicles.
I would note that Britain's car market is probably in better shape than Canada or the US or Europe. Because they let Chinese automakers compete. But also, driving is surprisingly dangerous. In America, land of the holy guns, guns barely kills more than cars.
I live in Ireland, where a) everything is a bit more costly and b) cars have the year of building on the number plate, which means everyone can tell if you are upgrading on the regular.
Firstly, Jennifer is right to buy 2nd hand. Normal wisdom is the car loses a third of the value when the first driver drives it away. You don't quote a 2nd hand price, but poking around suggests this third holds for a ford focus. Based on south Dublin, there is going to be no shortage of cars for the 2nd hand market any time soon.
Secondly, you mention regulation. The UK doesn't really have much say any more, due to leaving the EU. The UK is a small car market. This was predictable. The one place where the UK is doing better than the EU is by not setting trariffs on cars from China.
Thirdly, you mention "The massive increases in price, size and weight are down to two things: mandatory safety systems that require increasingly sophisticated arrays of cameras, sensors, electronics, impact systems" . Computers are both light (you can carry around a mobile phone) and also cheap. Also, the cheap ford focus, is ... a petrol car. Why is the drivetrain bigger?
A different view is:
- Ford sets prices based on what the market will pay with the goal of maximising income. They are rational actors. Jennifer is also a rational actor. She's working to get the best she can from a fixed budget. If Ford over prices their cars and they start piling up outside the factory, then prices will come down.
- Most people want flashy features in their car? They also want better MPG.
- Lots of people die on the roads each year, and many more are injured etc. Lots of people, including myself, are willing to pay extra for safety. I've considered home brew parking sensors or a reversing cam.
Good to see you writing again. A related point on this, as a parent of two under threes in desperate need of a new car (currently have a 2018 Fiesta), child car seats are now massive, are required for much longer than ever before (11/12 years(?), or by the time they reach a certain height), and we can only fit them in the fiesta by putting the older child in before the younger. But who would vote against less safe car seats? We don’t want more kids, but if we did you can add another £20,000 minimum onto the car price for the extra space to fit a third car seat with all the other features we want (not need).
I suspect it was tongue-in-cheek, and I'm not saying I believe them, but I've seen someone suggest that one reason for falling fertility rates is that it's basically impossible to transport more than 2 children in a car with modern car seats. We used to fit three kids in a Peugeot 205, now people are struggling to fit two in an SUV.
Yep, I’m one of three who used to fit (just about) into an Astra. It didn’t feature in our decision making, but I’d be surprised if it wasn’t a genuine consideration for some!
Looking at how Jennifer uses her car why doesn't she just spend £5k on a used car and save a ton of money over the next few years in depreciation costs? It would be perfectly good enough for her needs, she probably doesn't need any of the bells and whistles that come with New cars these days and make them expensive.